Talk:OOC:Rules Modifications

Street Cred tests

Status: Accepted

Community Scale Social tests

When rolling a social test to interact with a community, replace Charisma with Street Cred. For example, planting false rumours would be Street Cred + Con, easing tensions might be Street Cred + Ettiquette, and inciting action or calling a rally could be Street Cred + Leadership. Limit is still intrinsic Social limit. Street Cred bonus does not apply since it's already part of the roll, but all other social modifiers (from the table or personal modifiers) relevant to the action apply.

At GM discretion, this may be an extended test.

Legwork tests

When trying to find information through your network of contacts, make a Legwork test; this applies both for active searches, and for passive searches, e.g. being informed of new rumours. Roll (Street Cred) + (number of relevant contacts); the limit for this test is the highest Loyalty+Connection for any individual relevant contact.

At GM discretion, this may be an extended test.

Note: There is actually something for this in the book: RF p.177 says you need to make a Leadership + Charisma [Social] test to determine how many Contacts you can muster, and then the contacts are avaliable to use in a teamwork test. You must pay each contact individually. — Revàn^(Talk) 11:46, 30 November 2020 (EST)

Rationale

We don't currently have rules for actions at this scale and I liked them the couple times we have used them in the Magic Mike run so far.

— Jynx (talk) 17:31, 17 June 2020 (EST)

+1 --Malta^Talk

Machinist Can Slave Drones

Status: Accepted

Right now Machinist Riggers get the benefits of an RCC but can't form a PAN. Meaning none of them apply. I think they should be able to slave Drones *and only drones* without the quality that allows PANs.

Rationale

So Darcy can have fun

--Malta^Talk

+1 — Jynx (talk)

Increasing Contact Connection

Status: Under Review

So after reviewing the chip rules in RF, here's my suggestion on expanding contact connection in a sanctioned way for the future:

• You cannot be raising the Connection rating of a different contact
• You must be Loyalty 3 or higher with the contact you are trying to raise.
• You need to spend chips equal to new Connection rating
• You need to spend karma equal to new Connection rating
• You need to either spend time equal to new Connection rating in weeks or wait twice that time (this represents either you working to getting the word out or waiting for word of your deeds represented by the chips to disseminate naturally)

— Revàn^(Talk) 11:24, 30 November 2020 (EST)

I like most of this, though I feel having multiple options for time is a bit inelegant. Personally I'd prefer just the "wait twice the time" option, though it's a mild preference.

Also of note is the following from RF p.176:

If the characters are able to complete work that brings significant benefits to the contact, the gamemaster may improve both the Connection rating and the Loyalty of the contact as well at the end of the adventure.

For example, bumping Lyra at the end of Magic Mike. If the reward is not worth a whole rating, then at least granting some number of chips seems reasonable.

Do we care about the difference between Loyalty and Connection chips? Narratively they're different, but I like keeping them together mechanically.

— Jynx^(Talk) 13:40, 30 November 2020 (EST)

The two kinds of chips are what matters most to me honestly, definitely a fan of being able to spend both kinds of chips at once --Malta^Talk

> I like keeping them together mechanically.

That's an interesting thought. I think aside from Malta nobody's *really* had a lot of interaction with chips in general. Combining them would make it more enticing for everyone else to get in on it, I think? Less bookkeeping is also a plus. I don't think there is that much of an incentive aside from the more face-y characters to spend that much resources to contacts and this is a shame.

> Personally I'd prefer just the "wait twice the time" option, though it's a mild preference.

I am OK with this

> definitely a fan of being able to spend both kinds of chips at once

I think this is doable. Assuming we combine the types of chips I would be OK with "spend 2x (generic) chips to increase Loyalty and Connection" (and pay the other associated costs)

— Revàn^(Talk) 17:09, 30 November 2020 (EST)

So from this discussion and some backchanneling, my current proposal is:

1. There are two kinds of chips, one for Loyalty, one for Connection.
2. Connection chips may be used for Loyalty raising, but not the reverse.
3. Loyalty raising costs are unchanged from Run Faster - spend chips and weeks equal to new rating.
4. Connection is similar, but also costs karma - spend chips, karma and weeks equal to new rating.
5. There are separate time tracks for raising Loyalty and Connection, each also separate from generic Downtime - You can raise yourself, a contact Loyalty, and a contact Connection at the same time.
6. To raise Connection, the Loyalty must be at least 3.
7. Gaining/spending any kind of chip should come with some actual narrative - some in-game or downtime action that gets at least a bit of spotlight.

I am ambivalent about (3) and (6) - they're from Josh's preceding proposal and represent Connection being harder to raise, since it's helping the contacts abilities as opposed to bettering the relationship. However, this might be subsumed by Connection chips simply being "harder" to obtain, and also usable as Loyalty chips. I don't really care either way.

While separate chips and time tracks is more book-keeping, I've reversed my position on keeping them together. Contact specific chips forces narrative outside the PCs. Some of the best stuff to come out of recent runs, imo, was bringing Malta's Tenement more into play and putting Lyra in a more central position. The world gets bigger and richer. And more inspiration for plot hooks.

Separate time tracks incentivizes more contact improvement and hence using them more.

— Jynx^(Talk) 13:31, 1 December 2020 (EST)

Full disclosure, (6) is from the rule in Better than Bad which required you to have 3 loyalty to raise Connection.

On (2) I thought about this and decided that the chip system shouldn't be *too* fragmented, since chips are also supposed to be tradable for favours (and have ratings). Maybe we should restrict raising connection to higher rating chips if we want to represent it being harder to raise instead? If we want to keep them seperate we should have them tradable for favours and not have Connection and Loyalty mix.

The follow-up on (7) is "what constitutes a reasonable action to gain loyalty/connection chips?" Using Lyra as an example, if for example Revàn goes with Lyra on a talisman reagent gathering trip in the middle of the mountains as a favour to her for Loyalty chips, does this constitute me going on a run to do this or just me saying that I did this and mark the time on my calander?

— Revàn^(Talk) 18:13, 1 December 2020 (EST)

With respect to (7), I'm fine with you just saying that and marking it on the calendar. But you have to at least come up with something to say, and it has to actually happen in game sometime, whether downtime or on a run.

For (2), I honestly don't particularly want Connections to be *harder* to raise, just different. Loyalty is your personal relationship which can be raised through various interactions with the individual. Connections is external and can't be improved just by doing generic favours, you have to somehow build up their presence/resources.

— Jynx^(Talk) 00:44, 2 December 2020 (EST)

Honestly, in my mind, the narrative is how you gained the chip. Hence why we have them. Whereas, the process for spending it is basically working your contacts and other resources to help the contact. Mostly (2) I assume would be that Connection chips are assumed to be useful for loyalty, because you raised their standing, they now like you, and so when you raise their connection you can put the extra legwork in for Loyalty.

-- Malta^Talk 15:30, 3 December 2020 (EST)

Per discussion last session, I believe the below is our current model for this rule:

• Specialized 'Connection Chips' exist
• Same mechanics as Loyalty Chips, but obtained through narrative/runs that improve the contacts standing instead of their relationship with you.
• When spending Connection Chips, may increase Loyalty in addition to Connection
  • So a spending a Rating 5 Connection Chip on a Connection 4, Loyalty 1 contact would take 5 weeks and improve the contact to Connection 5, Loyalty 3

— Jynx^(Talk) 12:27, 9 December 2020 (EST)

Do I Know You? Thresholds for Distance

As mentioned, this is changed to a Street Cred Roll. I would like to propose the following thresholds:

 1 - City Neighbourhood
 2 - City District
 3 - Local City
 4 - Neighbouring Metropolisis and Environs
 6 - Country + Neighbouring Countries
 8 - Continent
10 - World

Rationale: Connection 5 in the book (SR5, p. 387) is "city councilman" and they get 9 Street Cred dice. At buying hits, they get two hits and have an averege of three, and I think it makes sense that on average people who live locally would know the local city councilman. 6 is "county + neighbouring countries" because I don't think it's more likely that someone from Boston would know about someone based in Seattle than someone based in Cara'sir (Vancouver I would argue counts as "Neighbouring Metropolis and Environs"). ((Alternative proposal: I would also be OK if Seattle counted as Salish for the purposes of "country", and we change 6 to "country")) — Revàn^(Talk) 22:17, 7 December 2020 (EST)

I'm okay with this. — Jynx^(Talk) 12:13, 9 December 2020 (EST)

Looks good for me -- Malta^Talk 23:19, 10 December 2020 (EST)

Ramming and Crashing

Status: proposed

Ramming

Use as per Ramming Rules on SR5 p203, but symmetric — each vehicle takes damage according to the Body/Speed of the other.

Crashing - Barriers

Treat as a Ram as above against Body=Structure and Speed=0

Crashing - Immovable Object

For example, a cliff face. Treat as a Ram against self.

Falling

Use pedestrian falling rules.

— Jynx^(Talk) 00:56, 16 December 2020 (EST)

Rationale

The first ruling means bigger vehicles win the ram, the remaining are ideas for where rules don't explicitly cover. The crash rules still damage bigger vehicles more though. — Jynx^(Talk) 01:06, 16 December 2020 (EST)

Group Contacts

Status: Proposed

Treat groups the PCs have a strong relationship with as a single contact (as opposed to several, or a faction). E.g. 37 Juggernauts for Malta, Jynx's potential technomancer tribe, possibly Gate of Ishtar for Revàn.

Rationale

Faction rules as is are essentially unusable, but we would like ways to "level up" the group. For the tribe, arguably I could grow four individual contacts; but for the juggernauts, I don't see a mechanical way to represent their increasing presence. Maybe it's unnecessary and can be handled solely through narrative. *shrug*

— Jynx^(Talk) 01:10, 16 December 2020 (EST)